[phenixbb] Stalled refinement

Kay Diederichs kay.diederichs at uni-konstanz.de
Fri Apr 18 14:17:32 PDT 2014


It is a good idea to try several data processing programs in difficult 
cases.

BTW the latest MOSFLM can also integrate two (or more) lattices.

Pls report your results.

Kay


Am 18.04.14 22:59, schrieb Yarrow Madrona:
> Thanks Kay,
>
> XDS kicked out a lot of reflections. There were about 23,000 rejected
> reflections out of ~ 190,000 collected. I can clearly see another minor
> lattice in many frames and I presume that the rejections are coming from
> the minor lattice that was not selected. I was thinking of processing
> with EVAL15 to see if I get better results. Thanks for your help. Maybe
> respond off-line as this is a discussion maybe more suited for another
> mailing list (CCP4?).
>
> -Yarrow
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 7:11 AM, Kay Diederichs
> <kay.diederichs at uni-konstanz.de <mailto:kay.diederichs at uni-konstanz.de>>
> wrote:
>
>     Hi Yarrow,
>
>     the problem is that during structure solution, many wrong paths may
>     have to be followed until finally identifying the correct path.
>
>     So the general answer to this kind of problem is: in some way, your
>     parameterization of the experiment is wrong or incomplete.
>
>      From what you write, data quality does not seem to be the problem.
>     But: did XDS really integrate _all_ the reflections, or only a
>     subset (say, every second reflection)?
>
>     Check out
>     http://strucbio.biologie.uni-__konstanz.de/ccp4wiki/index.__php/Refinement#what_can_go___wrong_in_refinement.3F
>     <http://strucbio.biologie.uni-konstanz.de/ccp4wiki/index.php/Refinement#what_can_go_wrong_in_refinement.3F>
>
>     If, after thorough attempts, you fail to find the solution, upload
>     your current model, sequence and raw data frames to a Dropbox folder
>     and post the link here - there may be people who succeed in
>     processing the data nicely, or otherwise can identify the problem
>     based on the data (rather than based on your description only).
>
>     HTH,
>
>     Kay
>
>     Am 18.04.14 01:25, schrieb phenixbb-request at phenix-__online.org
>     <mailto:phenixbb-request at phenix-online.org>:
>
>         Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:25:00 -0700
>         From: Yarrow Madrona<amadrona at uci.edu <mailto:amadrona at uci.edu>>
>         To: PHENIX user mailing list<phenixbb at phenix-online.__org
>         <mailto:phenixbb at phenix-online.org>>
>         Subject: [phenixbb] Stalled refinement
>         Message-ID:
>
>         <CAMHjG6bPE4q1xWidpE2VwFMJ9qLS__qjtLRuLMM1ef9vWBHBfZKg at mail.__gmail.com
>         <mailto:CAMHjG6bPE4q1xWidpE2VwFMJ9qLSqjtLRuLMM1ef9vWBHBfZKg at mail.gmail.com>>
>         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>         Hello,
>
>         I using the latest stable build of phenx.refine (1.8.4) I recently
>         collected data, processed and obtained an MR solution using
>         phaser. I am
>         stuck trying to refine with an Rfree sitting at 40%
>
>         I really want to know if the high Rfree is due to poor data
>         quality or if
>         non-crystallographic symmetry involving a near perfect two fold
>         rotation
>         between the two molecules in the ASU could somehow impede
>         refinement. Stats
>         and other information is below. Thank you for any help you can give.
>
>         -Yarrow
>
>
>         Visually, the quality of the data is marginal at best
>         (streaky/ice rings in
>         many frames) despite good processing stats from XDS. Processing
>         with mosflm
>         or HKL2000 managed to index but failed pretty bad in integration and
>         scaling.
>
>         Phaser gave high TFZ scores for 2 molecules in the asu (see below).
>
>         Density for a cholesterol like ligand shows up even though not
>         present in
>         the search model.
>
>         MolRep Self rotation shows rotational symmetry.
>         https://www.dropbox.com/s/__2zsajl5o091k50r/CYP142A2-__032814_21_rf%20copy.pdf
>         <https://www.dropbox.com/s/2zsajl5o091k50r/CYP142A2-032814_21_rf%20copy.pdf>
>
>         The 2 molecules in the ASU are related by almost a 2 fold rotation:
>
>         Rotation matrix for chain A to chain B:
>
>         new_ncs_group
>         rota_matrix    1.0000    0.0000    0.0000
>         rota_matrix    0.0000    1.0000    0.0000
>         rota_matrix    0.0000    0.0000    1.0000
>         tran_orth     0.0000    0.0000    0.0000
>
>         center_orth   15.2016    0.5245   33.7070
>
>         rota_matrix   -0.9860   -0.1636   -0.0309
>         rota_matrix   -0.1659    0.9511    0.2605
>         rota_matrix   -0.0132    0.2620   -0.9650
>         tran_orth      34.3310  -24.0033  107.0457
>
>         center_orth   15.7607    7.2426   77.7512
>
>         RMSD, B onto A = 0.0007 after phaser
>         RMSD, B onto A = 0.347 after one round of refinement in phenix
>
>
>         Refinement using aniostropically corrected data (ucla web server:
>         Services.mbi.ucla.edu/__anisoscale
>         <http://Services.mbi.ucla.edu/anisoscale>) did not improve the
>         Rfree in refinement.
>
>
>         Statistics are listed below:
>
>         UNIT CELL: 51.487 88.923 89.592 90 97.15 90 P21
>
>         RESOLUTION     NUMBER OF REFLECTIONS    COMPLETENESS R-FACTOR
>           R-FACTOR
>         COMPARED I/SIGMA   R-meas  CC(1/2)  Anomal  SigAno   Nano
>              LIMIT     OBSERVED  UNIQUE  POSSIBLE     OF DATA   observed
>           expected
>                                              Corr
>
>                5.99        8280    1927      2087       92.3%       3.1%
>               3.3%
>             8246   35.09      3.5%    99.8*    20*   0.909    1296
>                4.30       14606    3401      3487       97.5%       3.3%
>               3.5%
>            14580   33.37      3.8%    99.9*    11*   0.843    2273
>                3.53       17961    4244      4445       95.5%       3.8%
>               3.9%
>            17944   31.11      4.4%    99.8*    -2    0.789    2721
>                3.06       21954    5068      5221       97.1%       4.9%
>               5.1%
>            21933   24.81      5.6%    99.7*    -2    0.780    3455
>                2.74       25741    5830      5933       98.3%       7.6%
>               7.6%
>            25713   18.88      8.6%    99.5*    -2    0.782    4165
>                2.51       27859    6311      6483       97.3%      10.8%
>              10.8%
>            27824   14.06     12.3%    99.1*    -2    0.774    4385
>                2.32       31336    6979      7084       98.5%      14.9%
>              15.3%
>            31296   10.49     16.8%    98.5*    -4    0.748    5095
>                2.17       32396    7347      7567       97.1%      22.3%
>              22.7%
>            32341    7.46     25.4%    97.3*    -7    0.728    5055
>                2.05       32254    7339      8047       91.2%      33.1%
>              33.5%
>            32075    5.06     37.5%    94.8*    -6    0.724    5155
>               total      212387   48446     50354       96.2%       7.8%
>               7.9%
>         211952   16.57      8.8%    99.7*    -3    0.768   33600
>
>         Processing with mosflm or HKL2000 managed to index but failed
>         pretty bad in
>         integration and scaling.
>
>
>         Phaser:
>
>         SOLU SET RFZ=27.5 TFZ=24.2 PAK=0 LLG=1711 RF++ TFZ=64.6 PAK=0
>         LLG=3610
>         LLG=4865
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>         ------------------------------
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>
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